We are doing a commercial project in which we are being asked to paint over the existing vinyl coverings that are up. Most of the paper is tight and it is only about 5 years old. I do not like the idea of doing this but they are insisting on not taking it down to keep costs down. What has your experiance been with this? I am going to do it but I am not going to warranty the job. Thanks for your help. Happy New Year!

Remove any loose paper, skim seams, sand and clean, prime with oil based primer( or maybe http://www.scotchpaint.com/drawtite.html), paint.

Greetings Master Piece Painting

We used to paint over commercial VWC all the time. We even applied multi-colored coatings like zolatone and polymyx over VWC.
It is a good way to offer your clients an economical alternative to removal, repair and repaint.
Property managers will be looking for ways to save dollars.

Some precaution is necessary. Mutiple layers of VWC are not as good a candidate as single layer (weight vs adhesion issues).
If the existing already has multiple areas of adhesion problems (a lot of loose) those are also probably not a good candidate.
You can test surfaces on your walk through take off. Your plan to warranty around these areas is a good one and fair.

We used to re-glue some areas using HD clear paste - but only limited areas.

Typically the seams on vwc having been double cut, are flat and not an issue (compared to lighter paper backed vinyl wallpapers).
Most vwc we hung and most vwc we painted had at least a light texture to them so skimming was not an option and not needed.

Make sure to wash all surfaces clean - no soap or cleaner residue when complete.
Apply a good quality acrylic primer - check with your vendor for best product for this application.
Often we had finish paint colors that allowed for tinting the primer to near finish color and then apply one or two coats of finish.
We usually used a good commercial latex - eggshell sheen.

Sorry this is getting a bit long-
I'd suggest you take advantage of what experience and knowledge you gain from this project and use it to market to your existing and prospective office property management companies.
Offering expertise at saving your existing customers and prospective clients money in unique ways while holding the quality card is a good thing.

Let the Board know how the project turns out.

Brandt


PS regarding Chris' recommendation on Drawtite, the product is a good one but really built to be used on drywall repairs when you have removed VWC.
It penetrates the surface and creates a great base to skim onto etc. when the paper layers on DW become damaged.

I only recommended DT or oil based primer as they will not " re- wet" the exsistig paper causing it to come loose as acrylic primers can do.

Materpiecework,

My thought for what it is worth. The appearance of the egghshell is going to be affected by the vinyl wallcovering. It may not neccassarily require a primer coat. This could only be found out by doing some mock-up work. It would be worth doing a mock up if it was a sizable facility, not on a small scope.

We one time repainted a painted vinyl call center that had been 2 coat egghell with 200 eggshell but the embossment of the vinyl caused it to appear & service as a flat coating. The walls looked horrible in no time. We repainted with 1 coat of a higher sheen product & it took care of it.

My final though is strive to get 2 coats to work for them possibly using a more premium material. Paint is normally a real small percentage cost on maintenance or commercial repaint. This type of work is also very nice margin work. The nice paint sheen will advertise your quality work for years. The reason they are considering painting over vinyl is to save money & are probably not interested in 3 coats.

On warranty: I never had an issue with this application. I would have standard warranty of 1 year.

Have a great new year!

Joel J

Thanks for all your help. I was thinking just doing two coats of finish as well. I will be using promar 200 eggshell. Its a pretty large space with about 30,000 square feet of wall space which is why I wanted to be sure. I figured that since its a pretty thick vinyl with a texture it would not allow the moisture to penetrate through. Just out of curiosity what do you guys charge per square foot for walls in a high end commercial setting.

Two coats may be enough because vinyl won't absorb the paint very much(if at all). Some vinyls absorb more then others but three thinner coats may be required if there is a major colour change. If you fill in the seems with drywall mud I would go for three coats.

Good notes, gentlemen.

I've found that the moisture in the drywall mud (when skimming seams) sometimes re-wets and lifts the wallpaper at the seams. To overcome this, we typically use an oil primer prior to skimming.

Art

Ditto here:

Clean the existing wall covering.if needed, scuff for adhesion with primer. Apply a minimum 1 coat of an alkyd, good "grab" primer,
and do any repairs that may pop up. Re-prime those areas, and apply your topcoat(s).

best of luck.

We have painted miles of vinyl, fabric and grasscloth wallcovering over the years. The best advice is to do a sample area, air it out and look for problems and get approval from the owner. We have given surfaces no prep, patched, caulked, primed with both acrylic and alkyd primers or just given 2 coats of finish. Every vinyl is different. The adhesive used may react to moisture or may not be affected. Seams may not be an issue or could create a nightmare. The answer is to assume the worst and then relax when nothing happens. We have stripped, scraped, sealed, skimmed, sprayed texture over oil primer and done nothing. They all work in some circumstances. Do a sample area. I repeat - DO A SAMPLE AREA! Don't be a fool and learn the hard way. Our best friend has been a good fan to air out an area when we paint. Moisture is our enemy when painting over wallcovering. Air out the area and don't recoat too quickly. Adhesive reacts very quickly and can do a world of damage. Let us know how you proceed with this job.
A great topic with many ways to look at the solution.
Joel