Hey guys, I am bidding a 13,0000 square foot house. Its going to be new construction so I am bidding off of prints which is not my strong suit. It is a contemporary style with lots of high cathedral ceilings and walls. All of the trim is plain 1x4 and all doors are slab birch(roughly 40 doors). There are roughly 50 window most of which are plain casement, a few large stationary all of which will need primed and painted. I need to provide a realistic budget number for priming and two coating all areas with a consistent ceiling and trim color throughout. I know what I am thinking of bidding but I am really gunning for this one and would like some others feedback. I also know another company bidding that consistantly underbids jobs just to get in and the nickels and dimes the client which usually ends up costing the same or more than a quality bid from the start. Thanks for all your help in advance. Dave.

Do you know General Dave? Keep the prints you used to quote from. A job that size is likey to have tons of extra work just from plan changes alone. If your General is a decent contractor you may not have to worry, but you may want to keep yourself in a position to prove the work is extra and it's not in the plans you used but it may be in the General's "revised plan". I advise against going in at a discount because a job that size, the successful bidder is usually the one that makes a mistake or misses something. If your competitor is discounting to get the bid and relying on extra's to make a profit, don't try to out discount them. You will eventully discount yourself out of business playing that game.

Dave

I have been estimating houses in the 10-15k s.f. range for 8 years now. If you are new to this residential scope there are a few things to be aware of.

Inexperienced estimators will say: "We have done lots of 3000k s.f. house, and this is about the size of four of them put together." This model doesnt work, as the whole on one large project is much larger than the sum of parts on several smaller ones. It is further complicated by some economies of scale which you will enjoy, and hindered by the sheer volume of work going on inside the house by other trades.

It continues to amaze me that some paint companies think you estimate this, or anything by floor s.f. If that even crosses your mind, make the thought go away. There is no faster route to painter hell than to price large custom residential by the floor s.f.

Large custom residential new construction has been our specialty for much of this decade, and I can honestly say that I would only be comfortable taking any of these jobs if I knew I was the high bidder. You really have to demonstrate to the builder/architect that you know how to break down a large project and execute your plan. Sales becomes very important. A good builder will want to know that you are not only capable of painting the house, but more importantly you can forecast a budget and perform the work within it.

So...what works? Knowing unit costs and production rates. S.f. prices for walls and ceilings. Material estimating is critical. It is possible to use hundreds of gallons. Reading the prints carefully, finding all windows and doors and asking the right questions about trim and specialty details. Have a thorough contract that outlines what is included, and more importantly, what is not included. Track progress carefully to make sure that production is keeping pace with your profit goals. Dont underestimate. These jobs can kill you if you dont have enough budget.

Check out the PDCA Pacer program. You'd pay it off soon doing that type of work. Also you will very accurate.

right on

Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I would like to think that this builder knows that to lowball this type of job would be disaster for not only the painter but him as well. Unfortunatly that is not always the case. We are not the type of company that puts price first. We want to give our customers with a fair price but the quality of work and customer service that we provide usually makes us the highest bidder. How do you guys relate this to your costumers so that they understand the difference between you and the other guy?

We show that we know what we are talking about. Being an Accredited Contractor is one of the best selling tools I have ever used. When you prove that you have made an investment into education and being at the top then the respect and money value comes in loud and clear. We have been able to charge more for our jobs since we have been Accredited and clients appreciate what we bring to the table. Also, having a website that shows what your company is known for and can accomplish is very important.
Thanks for asking such a good question,
Joel

As Joel mentioned, it helps to have a website that clearly shows comparables that you have done. Then, it is important to present your contract face to face in a meeting with the owner/project manager of the company. That gives you the opportunity to demonstrate your knowledge of the prints and your numbers. I would not reveal to them your unit pricing, but I have found it very helpful to educate them on certain percentages. For instance, and this will depend on your own pricing, you might explain to them that based on your job costing of previous projects like theirs, your data reveals that for every dollar you put in the budget for wall and ceilings, you need two dollars for trim, windows, doors and cabinets, etc (not real percentages here, but you get the idea). Presentation is key. Too many guys roll out numbers that are arbitrary on large projects, and they can't justify them. This is important because often, the builder needs to be able to justify the paint number to the architect and/or homeowner. To avoid sticker shock on all fronts, we need to educate people about why a professional quality job costs more than a hack job. During that same presentation, its important to describe the "flow" that you will need in order to make your number work. In other words, sequencing of trades must be controlled by them in order for you to execute your scope of work efficiently. I agree with Joel, great question.

I have been struggling with that for years now. I have always strived to be the best at what we do and provide a service that is second to none, but its hard to make people understand even when you show them the difference. The people who get it are always blown away with the job that they get and the generals that we work for don't want to let us go. I think that setting yourself apart from your competition is very important in building a successful business. Are you required to be licensed in your areas? We are not here and I think that is a big part of the problem.

We are not required to be licensed. I don't consider that to be a problem, although I would like it if it was a requirement. It took us 7-8 years to firmly establish ourselves in the large high end market. If you have builders who do not want to let you go, and they pay you what you deserve, you are heading in the right direction.